Is there any part of the show you don't like?

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CJ-Rochester
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Re: Is there any part of the show you don't like?

Post by CJ-Rochester »

I love Angry Dance and Grandma's Song. I would never want the show without either of them. I do think both of these numbers can be imagined in different ways than what we are used to, and enjoyed how Ogunquit did them last year.

I agree with Ellen about the 'cerebral palsy' line. I think it can come across as offensive to someone who has CP. I was pleased when Ruthie changed the emphasis last May, and am sorry it has been changed back.

The only part of the show I really hate is the crowbar scene after "Express". I know Billy needs to catch his breath and change costumes, but this scene is such a downer.
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jmh2014
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Re: Is there any part of the show you don't like?

Post by jmh2014 »

CJ-Rochester wrote:The only part of the show I really hate is the crowbar scene after "Express".
If my memory is correct, it's taken straight from the film. It shows how they are dealing with grief. Tony's outlet is anger. Jackie has buried all his emotions and Billy just wants affection from his family.
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ERinVA
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Re: Is there any part of the show you don't like?

Post by ERinVA »

CJ-Rochester wrote:
I agree with Ellen about the 'cerebral palsy' line. I think it can come across as offensive to someone who has CP. I was pleased when Ruthie changed the emphasis last May, and am sorry it has been changed back.
I am not worried that it might offend someone. After all, that is exactly what Mrs. Wilkinson's character is all about. She speaks her mind and lets the chips fall where they may.

As for Keely saying, "But Miss, me mam...." I don't see that as any indication that Keely's mother has a disability. She could be saying her mother forgot to put the shoes in her dance bag for her, or preparing to offer any number of possible excuses shifting the blame to her mother.
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Re: Is there any part of the show you don't like?

Post by Todd »

angelenroute wrote: I hate when they cast Tony with an actor in his 30s or higher.
I agree with this, and would think that first time visitors to the show would get a little confused when they see what appears to be about a 25 year age difference between Billy and his older brother. Along those same lines, I also don't think the show works as well when Billy and Michael appear to be far apart in age, due to their size difference. I have a hard time buying that the two of them would be best mates when Billy looks to be about 13 and Michael appears to be about 9.
angelenroute wrote:I also believe there are perfect ways to deliver various lines, and I've never understood why people who perform this show in later productions don't study the interpretations others have discovered. Yes, I'm all for artistic choice, of course I am, but when night after night you deliver a line that's supposed to be funny, and no one laughs, you really ought to change something!
I would also say the same thing about some of the lines themselves. Certain ones rarely get even a chuckle but they've remained in the show for years. Specifically, Debbie's comment in the toilet scene about how her father "was shagging a woman down at work, but now he's an alcoholic" and George's comment that if Billy were his son, he'd break both his legs. The alternate version in some of the U.S. productions about Rudolph Nureyev being mis-pronounced as Rudolph Near-enough, followed by "It's Nureyev!" and then, "That's near enough" has gotten a good laugh from the audience at pretty much every show I've heard it used. I know it wouldn't make as much sense in the London production since his name is never used. But something different than "I'd break his legs" might be good, since the reaction to that line almost always ranges from dead silence to a few audible groans/gasps.

angelenroute wrote:There's really not much about the musical on paper (musical or dialogue) that I don't like. It all comes down to delivery and presentation for me.
Except for the two lines mentioned above, this would be my opinion too. As has been mentioned before, I think "Angry Dance" can vary greatly depending on which Billy performs it. In London, it's almost always my favorite number in the show due to its original staging and lighting, and also since - at least in recent years - the Billys there really let it fly. On the North American tour and especially in the recent regional productions, they don't seem to have the technology and staging capabilities at their disposal and the scene feels a bit watered down. And as kport said, I thought the changes to "Grandma's Song" in Ogunquit last summer to make it a dance with just Grandma and her husband and then with Billy made her story more clear and vastly improved that scene.
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StevenKing
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Re: Is there any part of the show you don't like?

Post by StevenKing »

For me Angry Dance when done perfectly(rare) can be the best part of the show. When done low energy Slightly Annoyed Dance it can be the worst. Most of the time it's ok if not great. I think the Billy's have to ration out their stamina and AD begs to be done no holds barred and that just may not be possible on most occasions. I personally think George ruined it for me when he did it on the first anniversary and since it was a shared show he could pour ALL the emotional and physical ability he had into it...not fair to compare that to other shows but it does show what can be done with the dance.
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Re: Is there any part of the show you don't like?

Post by jtsw1 »

I'm listening to "Goodbye Grandma" right now, and I can definitely say that this would be the part in the show that I'd hate with all my heart. Why would Billy sing that? It doesn't fit at all. "I wish the world was different and I could hold you in my arms"? No, thanks, I'll go with "It's got mold on it!!" ;)

"Grandma's song", however, is just great. A very strong feminist message and a big influence for Billy to make his dreams come true. All the other parts in the show work well, too. The only thing I don't like is when they are slightly overacting (mostly shouting too loudly).
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Re: Is there any part of the show you don't like?

Post by angelenroute »

Todd wrote:I would also say the same thing about some of the lines themselves. Certain ones rarely get even a chuckle but they've remained in the show for years. Specifically, Debbie's comment in the toilet scene about how her father "was shagging a woman down at work, but now he's an alcoholic" and George's comment that if Billy were his son, he'd break both his legs. The alternate version in some of the U.S. productions about Rudolph Nureyev being mis-pronounced as Rudolph Near-enough, followed by "It's Nureyev!" and then, "That's near enough" has gotten a good laugh from the audience at pretty much every show I've heard it used. I know it wouldn't make as much sense in the London production since his name is never used. But something different than "I'd break his legs" might be good, since the reaction to that line almost always ranges from dead silence to a few audible groans/gasps.
I *like* the alcoholic line, but I completely agree, the audience is usually dead quiet on that one, and that means it's worth shaking it up.

Even though I like the delivery of Mrs. Wilkinson's cerebral palsy line, if it's not causing the right reaction, or it's turning people off, it would be worth revisiting with any number of switches ("I don't care if your mother has got 14 children...", "I don't care if your mother has got something growing in her sink...", "I don't care if your mother has got Ronald Reagen over for tea...").

I'd add Grandma's retort to the mix when she says, "Not him and all", which is just not understood in American English the way it is in Britain. It should have been changed right from the start to, "Not him too", and I have no idea why they never have.

The leg breaking line is crass in my opinion, but it does fit the era/community, so no fault in the writing there. I do agree though that other versions like the Near Enough one have succeeded so well that they should be used whenever possible instead.

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Re: Is there any part of the show you don't like?

Post by dongringo »

I never had any problem understanding, "Not him and all." It's obvious what it means and I've never been to England. ;)
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Re: Is there any part of the show you don't like?

Post by Steamboy »

I've found that the major things I like/dislike about the script shifted a bit after I first found the show. When I first got the OCR, I couldn't quite get into "He could be a star", but loved "Born to Boogie". Now, it's just the opposite - I marvel at "Star" for the operatic duel it is, and just sort of ignore BTB as pop fluff (I no longer much like 'I Like to Boogie' from the film, too).

One part of the film that got copied over to the stage show that I don't care for is Debbie delivering all her lines in a deadpan monotone. I've seen a Debbie or two acting as a warm human, and it's much better than hearing the robot version of the character. Similarly, in my opinion it's better for Michael to exhibit a sense of glee and excitement about crossdressing, instead of the more matter-of-fact line delivery a few have given, relying on the script to do the heavy lifting of the humor.

Is Billy still doing a long pause in the second toilet scene, when Debbie makes her offer? The times I've seen that, it's never really worked for me, mostly because the Billys weren't really working the bit, instead they tended to just stand there, and hope that the length of the pause itself was funny, when some facial mugging and Columbo turns would have helped immensely.

An erroneous costuming change that's been carried over from Broadway to the West End is Mr. Braithwaite. He used to be a down-on-his-luck english professor, all tweed jackets and sweaters, now he's a refugee from a Meat Loaf album cover. I think that to be a mistake because that makes him appear working class, same as Billy, yet sharing Billy's interest in ballet and music. When Mr. B is a higher social class, that leaves Billy without a same-class adult ally/role model, increasing Billy's isolation. To see someone in black leather and boots spout the Diaghelev line undermines the division between Billy and his community.

But the thing I dislike most? Traveling 4500 miles to go see it....!
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Re: Is there any part of the show you don't like?

Post by ERinVA »

Steamboy wrote:An erroneous costuming change that's been carried over from Broadway to the West End is Mr. Braithwaite. He used to be a down-on-his-luck english professor, all tweed jackets and sweaters, now he's a refugee from a Meat Loaf album cover.
I believe you are confusing the characterization of Mr. Braithwaite from the film with his characterization in the show. The first Mr. Braithwaite in London was Alex Delamere, and believe me, he was not dressed in tweed jackets and sweaters. Far from it! That does, however, describe the Mr. Braithwaite from the film.
Ellen



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