Relationship Between Company, Forum, and Individuals

dancingboy
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Re: Relationship Between Company, Forum, and Individuals

Post by dancingboy »

David, we are all individuals, we are all fans, we are all passionate about the Show. That is why we want to see its continued success. Maybe, one of these days the Company, in its many guises, will understand that.
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ERinVA
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Re: Relationship Between Company, Forum, and Individuals

Post by ERinVA »

burtond wrote:Whether the admins, mods or whoever at the Forum like it or not, the problem that exists is this - there is the company and there is the forum. The company have never mentioned individuals and if there is a problem it is put down to forum members not indivdals. I appreciate that you may not like to hear it but it is the case. Believe you me, there are many times with all the forum negativity that I would much rather just be an individual but for whatever the reason all regulars good bad and ugly are deemed forum!
I had composed an answer to this hours ago, but just as I went to post it, the site went down (we're working on correcting the glitch so it won't be so balky). But here's essentially what I said:

You are correct to a point. The company tends to assume that people they see as causing problems are forum members. And often the individuals they perceive this way are members, even though that is not always the case. But the forum itself does not cause people's behavior, and the people whose behavior causes problems in the eyes of the company are not behaving as they do because they belong to the forum. They would behave how they behave regardless.

But it's not just the company that has a misguided impression about what the forum is. The post that started this thread made that clear by talking about "the way the forum is treated." This seems to imply that there is a causal connection between forum membership and what is perceived by the company to be problematic behavior. This would logically lead one to the conclusion that if there were no forum there would be no restrictions on access to cast members because it's all about the relationship between the company and the forum. That is just false reasoning. If there were no forum, and there had never been a forum, the restrictions would still have been put into place.
Ellen



"I don't want people who want to dance; I want people who have to dance.”
-George Balanchine 1904 -1983


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Sam4God
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Re: Relationship Between Company, Forum, and Individuals

Post by Sam4God »

I agree with everything you've said, Ellen.

As a 'regular' BE attendee, I simply don't feel the need to go to the stage door after every single show I see. I've seen BE about 40 times now (which is not a lot compared to some other fans) - but it's still more than a casual-theatre-goer would consider 'normal'. I go see the show for 'me' alone, because it makes 'me' smile/laugh/cry and is just generally a great way for me to escape the stress of University work and whatnot every now and then. I don't go with the purpose of meeting the cast or talking to the Billys or 'mingling' with anyone in the company. For me, just seeing the show is enough and is 'the main event'; I don't expect anything else from the cast/company. The way I see it is, I've paid for a ticket to watch the show only - a special 'meet and greet with all the cast members' isn't included in the ticket price, so it's ridiculous to expect anything more than seeing the show. Of course, I can understand sometimes you may want to show your appreciation to a specific cast member (or any of the young cast) with more than just an applause at the end of the show. This is why I don't think going to the stage door for the right reasons is a bad thing altogether. I myself have been to the VPT stage door a fair few times, and have always had nice pleasant experiences. The problem arises when stage-door-goers expect something more from the cast. I personally never go to the stage door expecting anything. If I'm there and some cast members acknowledge me, I feel privileged and thankful for their time. And if they don't, that's fine too. After-all, nothing in their contracts says they HAVE to be all smiley and chatty to fans every time they see them at the stage door!

I think what some fans are complaining about is how different chaperones have treated them at the stage-door. I can't really comment on this as I've never really wanted to speak to any of the Billys/Michaels/young cast myself, so I don't think I've ever even seen the chaperones, let alone talk to them! ha! But I can understand why this may be frustrating for fans who simply want to say a 'well done' to the young cast. What I can't understand is, why would you want to say 'well done' to them every time you see the show. I think all the Billys realise their performances have been well-enjoyed by the audiences anyway, they don't really need to be told by individual fans on a regular basis! What's the point of applauses and standing ovations then? That's what they're there for! To show you've enjoyed their performance! Having said that, I don't think there's anything wrong with congratulating a child actor personally if you do to happen to get a chance. But as most fans are aware, the young cast aren't allowed to sign autographs unless they're with their parents (as mentioned before, it's the same case with the Matilda girls, so not unique to BE only). Accept this fact, and stop asking the chaperones to talk to the kids (I have no idea if this is what fans actually do by the way, I'm just saying).

This forum shouldn't be blamed for any of the personal experiences individuals have had at the show. Like I mentioned before, I'm obviously a member of this forum and have had nice experiences on the occasions I've gone to the stage door. So it's ridiculous to say 'The BE company hates the forum!' as I really don't think that's true.
113 Shows: (July 2008 - March 2016)
23 Billys: (LaytonX1, TannerX1, OllieX2, RyanX14, ScottX1, Dean-CharlesX4, AdamX16, JoshX5, KaineX8, HarrisX8, HarrisonX10, RedmandX10, TadeX2, AliX5.5, ElliottX5, BradleyX5.5, MitchellX3, MatteoX1, Ollie JX3, NatX3, Brodie X3, Thomas X1, Euan X1)
18 Michaels: (ShaunX1, Dean-CharlesX1, JakeX1, JoeX31, ReeceX15.5, Connor KellyX17.5, Connor LawsonX2, Adam VespermanX1, ThomasX5, JackX3, ZachX7.5, Tade BiesingerX1, FreddieX5.5, ZakX5, TomiX5, ToddX3, NathanX3, BenX1, BradleyX3)
13 Debbies: (MeganX1, AnnabelleX1, FrancescaX14, Emily SmithX7, Emily WilliamsX16, MacyX18, DaynaX16, MillieX12, DemiX14.5, KyriaX4, ConnieX3.5, Beatrice X2, HollieX3)
madashell
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Re: Relationship Between Company, Forum, and Individuals

Post by madashell »

It actually surprises me that the chaperones were as lax as they were in New York. Letterman had troubles with aggressive fans in New York and John Lennon was killed by a crazed fan. Let the chaperones do their job.
Todd
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Re: Relationship Between Company, Forum, and Individuals

Post by Todd »

Thanks for your well-written thoughts Sam4God. I basically agree with everything you said.

However, I think one of the reasons why this complaint about the lack of cast/fan interaction keeps coming up periodically is because of how many of us have seen it handled so differently in the U.S. productions, as well as in some of the other London shows.

I know it's a different set of circumstances on Broadway and on the U.S. tour since the kids' parents or guardian is there to pick them up after each show. But those of us who've followed the show in London since it began remember when the stage door scene there used to be pretty much the same as it was in the Broadway production.

So part of it might be the fact that when people are used to certain privileges and then have those privileges taken away, there's going to be some questions to the effect of: why did we used to be able to do this and now we can't ? In hindsight, it might have been better if the London show would have implemented their current rules from the very beginning, so people wouldn't have gotten used to expecting photos, a visit, etc. at the stage door after shows.

I agree that a ticket to the show should entitle you simply to an entertaining performance, and that the cast has no further responsibility beyond that. But when fans get treated to "extras" after shows such as the back-stage tours which were given in New York, cast members such as Greg Jbara making fans feel like old friends after just meeting him, and families of the Billys inviting fans to farewell parties/get-togethers which happened in the Chicago and New York productions, it's only natural for people to notice the contrast as to how things are currently done in London.
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ERinVA
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Re: Relationship Between Company, Forum, and Individuals

Post by ERinVA »

Todd, you make a good point about the fact that the changes that were instituted after the show had been running for a while, but these policies have now been in place for several years, so it makes absolutely no sense for anyone to continue to complain about them. They are not going to go back to how things were.

As a fellow teacher, you know that schools modify their rules and policies on a regular basis to deal with situations that arise. If they didn't do this, they would be irresponsible. The same has to be true for any organization that is responsible for the welfare and safety of children. Who is to say that if the show had continued to run in New York, the policies there wouldn't have changed as well if a situation arose that warranted it, or that the policy of the touring company won't change?

As for interacting with adult cast, do you think for a New York minute that if there was any perception that any of the children in the Broadway cast might have been endangered in any way by contact with the fans, whether true or not, the adult cast would have been as friendly as they were? I seriously doubt it. I think you would have found a distinctly different attitude among the adults if there had ever been any kind of incident or sense that something was "off" with any of the fans. As long as they knew the kids were protected, they felt free to interact with fans as they would at the stage door after any other show they may have been in. It's just part of the Broadway "style." Too bad it's different in London, but it is what it is. Even in NY, there were cast members who almost never engaged with fans, but simply slipped out of the stage door and went their way. They had a right to do this without having to "meet and greet," and no one ever questioned it. It was their choice.

I also would like to respond to the comment from madashell about the guardians in the US being lax. I disagree. Being friendly and comfortable with fans does not automatically translate to "lax" in my book. I would say that any time I saw them after a show they were quite vigilant with each and every child until he or she was handed off to parents. They were friendly, of course, but I can guarantee you that if they needed to, they would have taken care of any situation that arose.

The London chaperones handle things differently, but they are doing what they feel is necessary to protect the kids who are entirely in their care, unlike the situation in the US.
Ellen



"I don't want people who want to dance; I want people who have to dance.”
-George Balanchine 1904 -1983


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dancingboy
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Re: Relationship Between Company, Forum, and Individuals

Post by dancingboy »

Ellen, are you allowing any more posts on this topic?
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ERinVA
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Re: Relationship Between Company, Forum, and Individuals

Post by ERinVA »

For the time being, yes. But if things become unpleasant again, not only will it be locked, but it will be archived.
Ellen



"I don't want people who want to dance; I want people who have to dance.”
-George Balanchine 1904 -1983


To follow the forum's Twitter at http://twitter.com/BEForum, click on the direct link in Applies to All Forums above.
dancingboy
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Re: Relationship Between Company, Forum, and Individuals

Post by dancingboy »

For the benefit of Sam and Brad let me reiterate some comments I made previously. Invariably, I have seen a good show and been entertained. Invariably, I go to the Stage Door and do this by choice. Neither as a fan nor as a member of this Forum have I ever suggested ( and no one that I know of has ever suggested) that I have a right to do this. How the words ''rights'' and ''privileges'' ever came into this discussion I shall never know. I make a choice to try to say an additional ''Well Done'' to the young cast members, particularly the boy who has played Billy. It is my way of giving them additional support and encouragement, which, I am sure we all agree, they deserve. Billy, whoever it is, has been on stage for the best part of two and a half hours, sweating his proverbials off in order to entertain me and the rest of the audience. Like many people I applaud and give ovations during the show, but for me, that does not seem enough. It may be for many, but not for me. So, I choose to go to the Stage Door and await their exit and hopefully am able to pass on my ''Well Done'' comment. Although I may be wrong, I suspect that they quite enjoy the attention, I know I would, particularly if I was, say, Adam, and 5000 miles from home. Seeing a friendly face or two at the Stage Door would please me enormously.

However, at the Victoria Palace Theatre in London, the young cast members are unable to enjoy such attention since they are encouraged not to even smile or look at anyone at the Stage Door. One, impolite male chaperone, sees to that. How pathetic is that. It is one thing the Company ought to look into.

You may not like my last comment, Ellen, but I assure you it is true.
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StevenKing
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Re: Relationship Between Company, Forum, and Individuals

Post by StevenKing »

To quote the show your fighting a battle that was lost years ago. There is no stage door experience, won't be one and the fight for one is reinforcing the other sides opinions many times over. Any attempt to force the issue only confirms to them that they are justified and obviously making it worse so why keep trying? Years this has been debated, let it go, be sad about it but let it go.
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