US/Canadian Reviews: Problems With the Geordie Accent

User avatar
BEtourfan
Tony
Posts: 629
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:30 pm

US/Canadian Reviews: Problems With the Geordie Accent

Post by BEtourfan »

Surprised by how many Canadian reviewers/audience members have expressed difficulty with the Geordie accent ... wasn't Canada a British territory more recently than the U.S.?
User avatar
Eltonjohn
Miner
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:57 am

Re: Vancouver Reviews

Post by Eltonjohn »

Seeing as you're based in our nation's capital, Rob_Hanson, I think that I will let you have first crack at defending our post-colonial Dominion, eh? A vous monsieur. :arrow:

And to think, the reviewers in question are all living here in Vancouver, BC ! (BRITISH Columbia province. I will save the Newfie jokes for afterwards.)
BETM: "the most expensive school play ever."
Lee Hall
in Playbill October 2008
User avatar
ERinVA
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 17964
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:33 am
Location: Williamsburg, Virginia, USA

Re: Vancouver Reviews

Post by ERinVA »

When I listen to people from Canada, I do not get the impression that they are from England. They sound more like the people in the US to me, with the exception of a few pronunciations, such as "bean" for been, which people here tend to pronounce as "bin." The North American (US and Canadian) pronunciation of vowels is farther back in the mouth and more open than British pronunciation, for starters. So I can see why the Geordie pronunciation could be a bit problematic. Then of course there are the dialect words, most of which have already been (bean) Americanized when the show came to Broadway. Since we North Americans don't have a clue what an "airin' cupboard" is, for example, that got changed to "laundry basket." ;)
Ellen



"I don't want people who want to dance; I want people who have to dance.”
-George Balanchine 1904 -1983


To follow the forum's Twitter at http://twitter.com/BEForum, click on the direct link in Applies to All Forums above.
kport
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 7205
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:54 pm

Re: Vancouver Reviews

Post by kport »

It is an interesting subject - the connection (or not) with Canada's UK past (I hasten to add that there are many in Canada who claim to hold Scots, Welsh and Irish heritage - as well as English).

The first important distinction is that Canada gained its independence from the British Crown some 91 years after America. Hence it's connection is less remote, in terms of time.

The US separated from the British crown - Canada did not.

Canada is a member of the Commonwealth of Nations, headed by HM Queen Elizabeth II, a coalition of 54 nations whose populations total 2.5 billion - yes, billion - people - surpassing even the Catholic Church.

The next is that Canada (like northern and some southern American states) were held by France; and the French influence is still strong, down to language, culture and food. Canada is less 'homogenized' than America, though not by much.

Now, the contentious point (!):

Canadians see themselves as a nation where everyone is valued. It thinks less about 'me' and more about 'us' than America. Two examples: Canada has the same high level of gun ownership as America, without the high levels of gun crime. And Canada embraces (warts and all) its national health system.

Living in Florida in the winter (and Maine in the summer) I am always impressed by the courtesy and generosity of our Canadian visitors. They are some of my closest friends.

None of this is to say that one nation is 'better' than the other; I simply want to point out that Canadians do not always see all things as Americans do. The distinction is more than pronunciation. I do believe that Canadians, especially those of British descent, will have a closer connection with the story behind Billy Elliot and English life. Not always, of course, but generally.
User avatar
ERinVA
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 17964
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:33 am
Location: Williamsburg, Virginia, USA

Re: Vancouver Reviews

Post by ERinVA »

I am certainly aware of those basics of Canadian history vs US history, but the issue discussed in the review was the difficulty in understanding the Geordie accent/dialect. I believe you must concede that, in general, Canadian pronunciation is much closer to that of the US than to that of Britain. Even some French Canadian English sounds like Minnesotan. 8-) I have a Zumba instructor who is French Canadian, from Montreal, and when I first met her, I was guessing she was from Minnesota! Her friend who is also French Canadian, however, sounds much more French to me.
Ellen



"I don't want people who want to dance; I want people who have to dance.”
-George Balanchine 1904 -1983


To follow the forum's Twitter at http://twitter.com/BEForum, click on the direct link in Applies to All Forums above.
kport
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 7205
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:54 pm

Re: Vancouver Reviews

Post by kport »

ERinVA wrote:I am certainly aware of those basics of Canadian history vs US history, but the issue discussed in the review was the difficulty in understanding the Geordie accent/dialect. I believe you must concede that, in general, Canadian pronunciation is much closer to that of the US than to that of Britain. Even some French Canadian English sounds like Minnesotan. 8-) I have a Zumba instructor who is French Canadian, from Montreal, and when I first met her, I was guessing she was from Minnesota! Her friend who is also French Canadian, however, sounds much more French.
We digress!

Certainly most English speaking Canadians can pass as Americans (and vice versa) - most of the time. But, like America or Britain, accents can be regional. They can be Geordie or Newfy; Boston or Savannah. A civil servant in Ottawa will sound different from a lobsterman in Prince Edward Island. A Mainer from Popham will sound different from a Virginian from Jamestown (The Popham Colony preceded the Jamestown Colony).

There is no doubt that a Geordie accent is challenging to the uninitiated ear. There really are no close descendants in North America that I can think of that are Geordie (the Maine/Nova Scotia Down East accent is clearly linked to Devon/Cornish/Brittany accents). Until the coal mines arrived , that part of Britain was sparsely populated, rural, and not especially caught up in religious non-conformity; hence there was not a huge migration to the New World that happened in, say, East Anglia which, with its wool trade, was more exposed to the world beyond its shores.

Your point about Minnesotan accents is fascinating! 38% of Minnesotans are of German ancestry, while only 4% are of Franco-American. The hints of accent I hear from Minnesotans strike me more of Germanic than French origin. But I may be wrong. Such interpretations are subjective.

Back to Vancouver reviews, which is what this thread is about: I am heartened that most reviews seem to be very positive. Vancouver is a truly remarkable city; an open and vibrant city; I can commend it to all.
User avatar
ERinVA
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 17964
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:33 am
Location: Williamsburg, Virginia, USA

Re: Vancouver Reviews

Post by ERinVA »

One thing that many reviews on this side of the Atlantic, whether in the US or Canada, have in common is the claim that the Geordie accent is difficult to understand, so apparently it's difficult to understand. I think we can agree on that.
Ellen



"I don't want people who want to dance; I want people who have to dance.”
-George Balanchine 1904 -1983


To follow the forum's Twitter at http://twitter.com/BEForum, click on the direct link in Applies to All Forums above.
User avatar
Yorkie
Miner
Posts: 372
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:21 pm
Location: God's own County

Re: Vancouver Reviews

Post by Yorkie »

Loving the reviews and the discussion - perhaps I could add that a 'thick' Geordie accent is difficult for many British people to understand too. Just my opinion, but if you were to ask a sample of British people what the most difficult regional accent was to understand I would bet Geordie would make the top 5 maybe even top 3 (Glaswegian can be a tough one too).

So, I guess it isn't a surprise that people in North America would struggle with it (although if you think the stage version is hard I wouldn't recommend a trip up to the North East!). And Canadians sound like 'generic' Americans to me (i.e not from East or West Coast or the South) - but I can't tell Aussies from Kiwi's either.............
MRS WILKINSON IS A RIGHT COW!
User avatar
Eltonjohn
Miner
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:57 am

Re: Vancouver Reviews

Post by Eltonjohn »

Yorkie wrote:- but I can't tell Aussies from Kiwi's either
I have trouble sometimes distinguishing South African english speakers from those Down Under (!), but it does comes with a bit of practice. Growing up I learned english in a part of Canada that received all of the major US television networks along with the lone CBC (Canada's BBC). Consequently some Canadians think I sound rather American (higher pitched vowels) like Mitt Romney (ouch!). My cousin from the middle of the country lived in her 20s for several years in New Zealand and upon her return spoke Kiwi for quite some time until it wore off. Am not a linguist (obviously) but the dialect spoken by some deeply rooted Newfoundland province folk reminds me of the incomprehensibilty (to me) of the speech associated with Cockney. So conversely, I highly doubt that someone from northern England could make out a spec of what this sort of extremely eastern Canadian is saying.

It could also be in part due to the acoustics of the particular theatre that makes comprehension challenging as well as the speakers' clarity and crispness of delivery and enunciation, vocal range etc. apart from the vernacular expressions. E.g. More difficulty making out the identical dialogue being delivered by one role player versus another.
BETM: "the most expensive school play ever."
Lee Hall
in Playbill October 2008
User avatar
Eltonjohn
Miner
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:57 am

Re: Vancouver Reviews

Post by Eltonjohn »

kport wrote:
ERinVA wrote:I believe you must concede that, in general, Canadian pronunciation is much closer to that of the US than to that of England
Certainly most English speaking Canadians can pass as Americans (and vice versa) - most of the time at least.... A civil servant in Ottawa will sound different from a lobsterman in Prince Edward Island.
I have to comment here that I have more or less equal ease with understanding:not understanding both people from the UK and from the USA. In other words, there's equal likelihood of my understanding either speaker, or not, on the order of 20:1 (95%) but that could just be my personal exposure to both.

Just as the rain in Spain doth mainly fall on the plain, there is what is referred to as the 'American Test' ... used by the red coated Mounties, Canadian Security-Intelligence and Canada Border Service Agents to feret out Yanks posing as Canucks.

Take The Test simply by pronouncing the following:

'There's a mouse about the house and I want to get it out.'

This infallible test is based on Henry Higgins' well publicized research. (This is a forum devoted to musical theatre after ahhhhhrrrrr)

Finally, it would be most obvious :roll: to ANY Canadian that one of the posters above is surely not a Canadian, as NOBODY in the Great White North (not just a different-sounding PEI lobsterman) can understand a d_rn word of what Ottawa bureaucrats try to tell their fellow Canuckleheads (in either one of the country's two official tongues).

Plus even if one could understand them, they would make no sense whatsoever! At least that is something that is not infrequently referred to in the press (hyperbole added ;) ).

[a vous :arrow: Rob_Hanson].
BETM: "the most expensive school play ever."
Lee Hall
in Playbill October 2008
Post Reply

Return to “Reviews - N. American/International Tour”